Please wait.'

Page is loading'


Home  > Forum  > Coatings & raw material failures  > automotive body filler lump formation - ur...

Monday, 18 March 2019

automotive body filler lump formation - urgent help!

17 Posts

Wednesday 16 April 2003 1:00:00 am

Dear Sir,

During last year we used an unsaturated polyester resin from far east which gave the following formulation and same was followed except for usage of styrene monomer and thixotrophic agent.
Catalalyst BPO (50%)
parts
Resin - 100
Pigment TiO2 - 2-5
Filler Talc - 150-200

After one month of mfg we experienced hard substance in and around the tins, more or less like resin lumps or gelled. The lumps even produced a bad odour and the substance was so hard the lids could not be opened. Same filler was packed in plastic containers but did not experience such lump formation. Certain authorities advised us that this new resin was reacting with the container. Hence we switched on to plastic containers. There we experienced that the body filler was more or less becoming dry after one month and entire content turns into oil free hard cake. Due to tz problem we had to switch back to the original metal containers by changing the formulation. At this stage we icluded German make resin from DSM-BASF product named Synolite 6494u2. This product data sheet included the following formulation.

Components Weight
Synolite 6494u2 300
Thixoin E.RHEOX 10
Micro Talc FGT 200 475
Titanium Dioxide 50
Barium Sulphate 140
Styrene Monomer 25

However, the above formulation is a very expensive one. Hence we had to blend it with the previous resin in order to cure within 5 minutes. (with the previous formula curing took min 15 minutes) which was also a set back from the 1st formula which was resolved by introducing Synolite. We also included chemical from SASOL SERVO BV Coating Additives named Nuvis Bez which was an anti sagging agent. The product data sheet reads as flws:
Nuvis Bez 75 is applied in non-aqueous coatings as an effective auxillary to fight setting and sagging.
Application and properties of Nuvis Bez 75 as per their data sheet given below:
Nuvis Bez 75 can be applied to most non aqueous coating eg: oxidativily drying alkyd, alkyd-melamine, acrylic, nitro-cellulose, chlorinated rubber and epoxy coatings as well as to wash primers and high solid paints. According to our experience, Nuvis Bez 75 cannot be applied to systerns containing zinc powder.
*As anti settling agent:
NUVIS BEZ 75 counteracts the formation of a hard unstirrable bottom cake during storage fo coatings. The effectiveness of NUVIS BEZ 75 as an anti settling agent is shown expecially in industrial primers and dipping varnishes.
*As anti-sagging agent:
NUVIS BEZ 75 counteracts the formation of sags both in dipping varnishes, spray paints and in varnishes applied by brush. Also after extended storage, NUVIS BEZ 75 remains active.
* Various other applications and propoerties:
NUVIS BEZ 75 gives a thixotrophic effect to coatings, even if the product is post added NUVIS BEZ 75 improves the brushability and if added to the pigment paste before the dispersing process, has a positive influence on the wetting and dispersing of the pigment.
NUVIS BEZ 75 is applied as a swelling and wetting agent to varoius types of Bentonite thickening agents. By using NUVIS BEZ 75 instead of eg:methanol, soft easily workable yet maximally gelled Bentonite-pastes are obtained.
We recommend the following composition:
85% white spirit
10% Bentonite after approx.3 min dispersing add:
5% Nuvis Bez 75 mis for approx 7 min.
100% Bentonite paste to be used after 24 hours.

Feature Conswquence
Liquid - easy ddition,may be post added as a corrective agent.

Imparts a thixotopic character to the paint - reduces paint sagging after application reduces sedimentation improves burushability.
anionic character - aids the gelling of bentonite.

Since the local market color of bentonite was changing from batch to batch we were asked to replace it with barium sulphate.
Furthermore as a special thixotrophic agent we have included a fumed silica named as Reolosil which is equivalent to aerosil from Degussa AG. Germany.
For the last two month product looks ok for us, but it is an expensive pudding. Although all these ingredients are included we are still not sure whether we have included all the ingredients or any other to be included or the propotions in which we have used the ingredients are correct or not. In this regard, we give below our present formulation.

Please advice us.
kg % from
resin
Indonesian resin 130 -
Synolite 26 20
Nuvis Bez 1.5 1
Tio2 2.340 1.5
Barium Sulphate 7.8 5
Talc 325 mesh 226.20 5
Reolosil 1.56 1
thixotrophic agent)

If alternative formulation could be suggested please post it on the web site. For yr info we give below the characteristics of both resins.
DSM BASF STRUCTURAL RESINS
PRODUCT DATA
Chemical / physical nature
Synolite 6494u2 is an unsaturated polyester based on DCPD dissolved in styrene. The resin is preaccelerated with polymeric amines has amedium viscosity and a high reactivity.
Major applications
Synolite 6494u2 is a versatile putty resin, intended promarioy for use in the manufacture of autobody filler paste composition for benzoyl peroxide cure. Filler pastes made from Synolite 6494u2 show excellent sandability and do not rapidly clog abrasive sheets.
Principal properties
Synolite 6494u2 accepts higher filler loads and the product shows excellent storage stability during storage of derived pastes. The resin has a fast and tack free cure and good thermal resistance. Synolite 6494u2 putties show very good adhesion to various substrates, including mild steel, galvanized steel, aluminium and polyester.

INDONESIAN RESIN:
PROPERTIES:
Appearance : Greenish yellow liquid
Acid value, mg.KOH/gram: 20-30
Viscosity, Poise at 25deg C: 4.5 - 5.5
Gel time, minutes at 25 deg c : 2.0 - 3.0
Cure time, minutes at 25 deg c : 4 - 10
Max. exothermic temp. deg c - > 80
High temp. stability at 120 deg c : > 90 minutes
Solid content 150 deg c, 1 hour : > 66%
sample ; 1 - 2 grams

Please be good enough to help us urgently with your comments.
1. what was the defect in the original formulation and why did lumps form.
2. why lumps formed only in tins and not in plastics.
3. how to judge the quality of the up resin for its adhesion, curing properties and keeping qualities.
4. how to analyse the pot life of the finished product.
5. what are the chemicals we require to add and what are the chemicals to eliminate from present formula.
6. what is the alternative formulation you could suggest.
7. could u kdly let us know the functions of each of these chemicals which is the binder, filler, thixotrophic, extender,pigment as per propotion used as we find every chemical has 2 or 3 functions of each one of those.

awaiting your favourable reply.
regards,
antony.

Author Message

  • Currently 0 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 0/5 (0 votes cast)

Thursday 17 April 2003 1:00:00 am

Please let us know your email address and your telephone number and address if possible, WE will get in contact with you , Urgently.
Gandhi

  • Currently 0 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 0/5 (0 votes cast)

Thursday 01 May 2003 1:00:00 am

dear sir,
1 regarding the lump formation
the side strip varnish in seams of
the tins was possible contaminant
due to which there was gelation
2 The fault with your original
composition was it required too
little accelerator for cure.
3 The up resin should be good
quality means it must have regular batch to batch consistency
if the catalyst adition should be
5% of 50 percent solids then it should cure in about 35-40 min
please do not exceed the recomended dose by the manufacturer.The resin should be stable at room temp 30 cent for
atleast 45 -50 days.
4 The product should be tested
for stability at 60 deg cent
for 60 hrs for product to remain
stable.
5 I think please take a lab batch
with the indonesian resin.
6 There is no problem with the
indonesian resin please ask the
manufacturer to give you all
the data regarding its
product.
ambrish

  • Currently 0 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 0/5 (0 votes cast)

Monday 12 May 2003 1:00:00 am

Definitely it is the resin reacting with the tin.

  • Currently 5 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 5/5 (1 votes cast)

Monday 24 November 2003 1:00:00 am

we are doing polyester puutyand tinker paste made in indian resin we need suttiabile additives and anti satiling agent

  • Currently 0 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 0/5 (0 votes cast)

Friday 23 April 2004 1:00:00 am

E MAIL ME URGENTLY

  • Currently 0 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 0/5 (0 votes cast)

Wednesday 05 May 2004 1:00:00 am

Dear Anthony
1. What was the defect in the original formulation and why did lumps form.?
IN MY OPINION THERE ARE A PROBLEM WITH THE REACTIVITY OF THE RESIN, I MEAN NOT THE FREE RADICAL REACTIVITY , IS THE ACID NUMBER, PLEASE CHECK IT BECAUSE THERE A RESIN WITH A BIG ACID NUMBER COULD BRING PROBLEMS, AND THE REASON WHY IS THE METALLIC SALTS FORMED FROM IRON, TIN, ETC BECAUSE THEY CATALYZE THE FREE RADICAL REACTION PRODUCING THE HARD COAT OVER THE FACE OF THE CAN.
2. Why lumps formed only in tins and not in plastics?.
BECAUSE THERE ARE NOT REACTION WITH THE WALLS OF THE CAN , IF THERE ARE NOT METALLIC SALTS THERE ARE NOT PROBLEM WITH THE GELLING.
3. How to judge the quality of the up resin for its adhesion, curing properties and keeping qualities.?
WELL THIS IS MORE RELATIVE TO THE SPECIFIC APPLICATION, I MEAN YOU COULD PREPARE A TEST PROTOCOL FOR THE PRODUCT AND SHOULD INCLUDE THE CRITICAL TESTS FOR THE PRODUCT, AN EASY WAY IS TO ASK TO THE END USER AND ASK WHAT IS THE CRITERIA TO HAVE A GOOD PRODUCT.
4. How to analyze the pot life of the finished product?.
THERE ARE SEVERAL METHODS AND EQUIPMENT, PLEASE CHECK IN GARDNER OR ANY OTHER COMPANY WHO SELL LAB EQUIPMENT
5. What are the chemicals we require to add and what are the chemicals to eliminate from present formula?
IT DEPENDS OF THE PERFORMANCE AND CHARACTERISTICS OF THE PRODUCT, YOU NEED TO FOCUS IN WHICH IS YOUR BENCHMARK PRODUCT IN ORDER TO FIX YOUR QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OBJECTIVES
6. What is the alternative formulation you could suggest?
IDEM
7. Could you kindly let us know the functions of each of these chemicals which is the binder, filler, thixotrophic, extender, pigment as per proportion used as we find every chemical has 2 or 3 functions of each one of those
THIS ANSWER COULD BE CHECKED IN SEVERAL BOOKS OF ADDITIVES, LIKE COATING ADDITIVES HANDBOOK FROM LEONARD J. CALVO, ALSO A GOOD REFERENCE IS ADDITIVES FOR COATING FROM JOHAN BIELEMAN
Best Regards
Victor

  • Currently 0 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 0/5 (0 votes cast)

Thursday 14 October 2004 1:00:00 am

what is your opinion about this formula:
polilite preacelerated resin 125.000
synalite 7.000
estirene monomer 13.00
cobalt octoate 0.300
titanium bioxide 2.000
talc 200 180.000
to adjust gelated time
add dimetilaniline 0.050
total 325.300
regards. antonio igartua

  • Currently 0 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 0/5 (0 votes cast)

Thursday 18 May 2006 1:00:00 am

We are unable to assist you but can supply the hardener or curing agent as "Di-Benzoyl Peroxide [BPO]" and please contact us through allytech@ms24.hinet.net if interested.

  • Currently 4 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 4/5 (1 votes cast)

Wednesday 01 August 2007 1:00:00 am

  • Currently 0 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 0/5 (0 votes cast)

Monday 25 August 2008 1:00:00 am

We can offer you Benzoyl Peroxide Paste in Tubes from 8grams to 240grams. For any other information you may visit at: www.romachem.com
Regards,
Kishore Chawla

  • Currently 0 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 0/5 (0 votes cast)

Thursday 23 April 2009 4:16:33 pm

Please mail me your phone nos. and email id , can i send you a quick solution to your problem. ([EMAIL="neerav@uniqueenterprises.co.in"]neerav@uniqueenterprises.co.in[/EMAIL])

  • Currently 4 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 4/5 (1 votes cast)

Wednesday 05 May 2010 7:58:32 pm

only cheek ur resin styrene is it Gel or reactin with DCPD along with tin caz DCPD use instend of styrene but price of DCPD higher so ppl use styrene normally in ur case ur use both solvents
1 more caz ur make heavy putty cheek ur barium is it ok or not ?
if u want to make ur own unsaturated polyester resin i will give u counsultancy with putty resin and body filler formulation both heavy weight and light weight aproved from bondo Atlanta USA
umair ali shaikh

  • Currently 0 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 0/5 (0 votes cast)

Thursday 06 May 2010 11:45:04 am

For to eliminate lumps and gelling problem you must add hidroquinone to formulation, over 150 ppm. on resin amount.
[EMAIL="mathcolor@mathcolor.com"]mathcolor@mathcolor.com[/EMAIL]

Bariumsalts Fok

  • Currently 0 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 0/5 (0 votes cast)

Thursday 03 May 2012 8:37:36 am

so far as I know, it is the particle size factor.
for fineness, things is ok after D50 were below 10micron
sinochemical@msn.com

LEVI T PAUL
PROF.

  • Currently 0 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 0/5 (0 votes cast)

Monday 28 May 2018 7:45:54 am

Hi Sir
My name Levi T Paul
Pls Help Body filler Making Formula
actually make Body filler india resin
but failed,
Please let us know your email address and your telephone number and address if possible, WE will get in contact with you , Urgently.

Umair Ali Shaikh

  • Currently 0 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 0/5 (0 votes cast)

Thursday 31 May 2018 6:42:44 pm

hi dear LEVI T PAUL
if you want to make polyester body filler with resin please contact with me on umairical@gmail.com

regard

LEVI T PAUL
PROF.

  • Currently 0 out of 5 Stars.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Log in or create a user account to rate this page. Rating: 0/5 (0 votes cast)

Friday 08 June 2018 6:31:31 am

Hi
we are doing polyester putty and body filler made in indian resin
we need suttiable additives and agent

top of page